Body Image Law - With Dr Marilyn Bromberg
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Transcript Commences
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Chris Patterson: This was quite
a different episode for me on
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multiple levels. On one level,
we discussed a topic that I had
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absolutely no previous knowledge
or experience of other than the
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research that I did for the
episode itself. Now, this made
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me feel a little bit unsettled.
As an experienced generalist
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litigator, I've dealt with most
areas of the law or have a basic
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understanding that they at least
even exist, but this was quite
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the exception. On another level,
when I looked into it, I
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actually realized that this is
one of those rare situations
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where you actually find that
there is a gap in the law and a
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gap that I believe needs to be
addressed. What I did learn from
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it, and that very much builds on
this, is that the topic of body
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image law is absolutely worthy
of discussion and research. It
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should be investigated further,
and I do sincerely hope that
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you'll get as much out of this
episode as I did. It was really
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a pleasure to have Marilyn
Bromberg join me. It was both
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illuminating and educating in so
many aspects. I do truly hope
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that you'll enjoy the podcast.
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Joining me on the podcast today
is Dr. Marilyn Bromberg. She is
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a director of Higher Degrees
(Coursework) at the University
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of Western Australia's Law
School. She has a PhD from
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Murdoch University and teaches
the units Social Media and the
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Law, Professional Practice, and
Law Advocacy, Activism and
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Change. In 2017, she received
the Blackstone Society's Teacher
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of the Year Award. Marilyn has
spoken at many noteworthy
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institutions, including Harvard
University, as well as before
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the Supreme Court of Canada. She
also works as a lawyer. Marilyn
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researches and writes about
issues that can make a
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difference such as health law
and body image law. And she is
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currently studying a Graduate
Certificate in Population
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Studies at the University of
Western Australia. When she's
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not researching or teaching,
Marilyn also serves as a judge
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for the high school mock trial
competition for the Law Society
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of Western Australia. Hello,
Marilyn, how are you?
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Marilyn Bromberg: Good. How are
you?
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Chris Patterson: Well, other
than a slight head cold, which
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you might pick up from my voice,
I'm doing amazing. I've had a
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fairly full-on morning, but I'm
really excited about our
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discussion and getting into the
area of body image law. So what
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can you tell us about body image
law? I mean, what is it?
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Marilyn Bromberg: Well, to
understand what body image law
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is, you have to understand why
many believe that it's
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necessary. So essentially, I
mean, have you seen images of
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women where they look either
unhealthily thin, or else curvy
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with a low body weight, and
those images are meant to be the
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ideal body for women? Have you?
Have you seen images like that?
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Chris Patterson: Yeah, look, I
have and I mean, I guess I'm
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kind of, without trying to show
too much my age. You know, I
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kind of remember when Kate Moss
was, was a professional model.
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And certainly, I guess it
concerned me that that was an
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image projected, particularly
for young woman to aspire to who
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just simply, you know,
genetically would never get
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there. But in more recent times,
and I guess I'm you know, I've
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been aware of some
controversies, particularly in
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Australia, kind of thinking of
the Alex Perry and Cassie Van
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Den [Dungan] debacle where Alex
Perry sort of made statements
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that her model agency shouldn't
let her out until she looks
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healthier. And and I'm sure that
there would be people who would
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would say the same thing. There
is a certain body image that is
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too thin.
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Marilyn Bromberg: In terms of
images of women, there's been a
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lot of research like by Shelley
Maghrib in the United States,
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which has found that when you
see these images of this ideal
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woman who is, you know,
unhealthily thin, or she might
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be of a low body weight and
curvy, then women might compare
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themselves and if they compare
themselves, and they feel that
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they don't measure up, that they
don't look as good, then that
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can be bad for them
psychologically. So it can
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develop into poor body image, it
can develop into eating
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disorders. And these images are
everywhere. They're ubiquitous,
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especially in the age of social
media, where social media's all
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about images. So that's where we
start from this idea that these
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images are a problem, and
they're everywhere.
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Chris Patterson: The images are
causing harm. I think, you know,
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what I'm saying is, it can cause
psychological harm that can also
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manifest itself into physical
harm. Particularly if, if you
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have someone who is, you know,
feeling, you know, I guess,
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adversely influenced by these
images, that, to the extent
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where it's going to alter their
behavior into unhealthy and
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unhealthy practices, yeah.
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Marilyn Bromberg: Yeah. And so
Israel, and then later, France,
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and then later Norway, passed
laws to address this issue. So
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in Israel and France, if an
image was modified to make the
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model look thinner, it needs to
have a warning on it. As well,
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models need to be either have a
minimum BMI in Israel or have a
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healthy weight in France, and
they need to get a medical
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certificate from their doctor
for that. In Norway, they just
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have the label. Norway only
requires the label and the
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images, it does not require as
well, anything in terms of the
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model's weight, or BMI. There
have been three laws that have
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been passed, the Israeli law was
passed in about 2015, a French
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law was passed in about 2017.
The Norwegian law, that was
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passed in about 2021. So we have
these three laws, which you
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might think, and also in the UK,
actually, at the moment, under
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Luke Evans MP. He's got a bill
in the UK Parliament to have a
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disclaimer on the modified
images as well. We've got three
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laws have been passed. There's a
bill in, in the UK, that's
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trying to address this issue.
But what is really unique and
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interesting and also horrifying
about this is that there's a
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huge amount of medical research,
like by Dr. Jasmine Fardouly or
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Dr. Marika Tiggerman in
Australia, which has found that
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the disclaimers don't work. So
if you put a disclaimer on an
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image and say, for example,
this, this image has been
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modified to make the model look
thinner, it doesn't help the
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body image of the viewer, it
makes it worse, because they
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compare themselves more to the
image. So we've got these laws
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in effect, that, you know, if
you if you look at the health
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research, and it's plentiful,
and it's peer reviewed, they
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actually, they actually don't
work,
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Chris Patterson: Kind of
creating an unintended
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consequence. I mean, I think,
because you mentioned it, maybe
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we just start with Israel,
because it sounds like Israel
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was was sort of an early
adopter, you know, back in 2012
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13. The warning from what I
understand of images, they have
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to say whether it's been
modified what where there's
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been, what 7% of the image or
something along those lines,
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I've got some form of
percentage. Is that how it
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works?
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Marilyn Bromberg: The sarning
needs to take up 7% of the
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image.
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Chris Patterson: Right. Okay, so
that's all immediately made me
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think about things like the
warnings that are on on
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cigarette packets, you know,
where, you know, they'll have
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that have, you know, a warning
of often a terrible image of
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what can happen if you smoke,
but you're saying that the
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research is suggesting that
putting the warning on there
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actually is counterproductive?
Is that what I'm understanding?
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Marilyn Bromberg: Yes, but also
thinking about the nature of the
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warning, like the nature is that
something to the effect of this
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image has been modified to make
the model look thinner, that's
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very different than say, putting
a warning on cigarettes, which,
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you know, says you could die or
you could get sick, which I
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think might be quite, you know,
confronting and extreme. And so
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it should be. But with a warning
on the models, it's just young
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images, it's just that the image
has been modified, typically.
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And it doesn't say, for example,
if you try to look like this
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model, you know, what will
happen to you. It doesn't say
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anything like that, for example.
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Chris Patterson: Well, I mean,
that's, I guess that's a really
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good point is to say, it's all
very well saying, hey, this
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image has been modified, but I
mean, for someone looking at an
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image modified from what, yeah,
you know. And what does that
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actually mean. I guess the other
part of it is this issue of BMI
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or body mass index, as a measure
of what, well let's just say
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good health or bad health might
look like and perhaps maybe
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that's where the warnings should
go is to say hey, this is an
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image of a model who's got a
dangerously low BMI, and that's
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not good for your health. I
mean, would that do you think
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Marilyn Bromberg: Good question.
I don't know. That's for the
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that might help?
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psychologists to to decide. But
the thing is that there are many
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problems with using BMI as well.
So it's also hard to say what's
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healthy and what's not, in that
there's many different problems
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that the scientific community
have identified with using the
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BMI. And then also, you might
have a model who is actually
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quite healthy in reality, but
it's one of the few who's
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actually naturally very, very
thin. Right. So then what do you
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do in that situation when she's
doing everything possible to be
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healthy? Yeah, it doesn't work
that way. So I think it's more
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complicated than it appears like
these laws in their current form
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aren't the answer, like what
might be the answer? Well, I
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think the answer to addressing
this issue is complex, but one
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possibility is perhaps requiring
a diversity of sizes of models.
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So the health research has found
that when you have diverse sizes
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of models in images, that's good
for mental health.
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Chris Patterson: Yeah. Now,
look, I did pick up the issue of
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Victoria's Secret a couple of
years ago, started using a
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model, Ali Tate-Cutler for one
of the campaigns in partnership
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with a London lingerie brand,
Blue Bella. She was she was
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their first size 14 model. Now,
I mean you had some views on
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that. I think one of your views
was that Victoria's Secret was
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remarkably late in the game in
having diversity amongst its
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models. I mean, I mean, is the
industry catching up?
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Marilyn Bromberg: I think that
there's been progress in the
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industry, for sure, over time,
more acceptance of a diverse
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array of body sizes. But there's
still so much pressure. I mean,
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and there's still so much, I
guess there isn't enough
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broadness, in terms of an
interpretation of what beauty
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should be for women. It's still
quite narrow, but it's certainly
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better than it used to be. But I
think a huge thing besides, you
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know, is law, the answer on you
know, possibly, but a huge thing
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that needs to happen is a change
in culture. There needs to be
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education regarding bodies and,
you know, teaching children that
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they shouldn't just try to
conform to what societal
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expectations are for their body.
So I think like a lot of things
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need to happen. But definitely
the law in its current form, I
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don't think is the answer. Law
might be an answer. Another
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possibility as well, there's
some research in its very early
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stages, which shows that if you
show an image of what a person
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looks like, in reality, besides
their altered photo, that can be
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positive body image.
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Chris Patterson: Okay. And just
going back to the culture
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aspect. I mean, do you think
like, language plays a part in
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that? And I'll just use the
example that the industry talks
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about when they say, oh well
we're now using plus size
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models. I mean, have you got a
view about labeling someone as a
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plus size model?
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Marilyn Bromberg: Yeah,
actually, I was interviewed a
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couple years ago about that very
topic. And I don't think we
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should be using the term plus
size model, or like, for
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example, you know, curvy or that
sort of thing. I think that it's
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damaging, because the thing is
that when you look at the
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average model who is quote, plus
size, end quote, she's actually
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normally the size of the average
Australian woman, or the average
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woman generally in a lot of
Western countries. And so if
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you're that size, you're seeing
a model whose termed plus size
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then it makes you think that you
are bigger than average, and
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you're not. And I don't think
that is helpful. I think we need
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to get rid of the term plus
size. And, you know, what do we
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call a plus size model? Just a
model.
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Chris Patterson: Yeah,
absolutely. Let me just go back
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to again, France, and there is
this concept in the industry of
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being Paris thin. Do you think
that the French laws are an
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attempt to address that? That
concept that you know, models in
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Paris need to be need to be
superthin?
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Marilyn Bromberg: I haven't
heard the term Paris thin
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before. However, Paris and
France generally, it's one of
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the fashion capitals of the
world. And I think that by
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France legislating on this
issue, it really is sending a
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sign to the world, that that
something needs to be done.
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Chris Patterson: Okay. Now you,
you mentioned about the UK, a
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possible bill that's working its
way through to address some of
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the mischief that we've been
talking about in this podcast
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involving this. But I understand
that at a more localized level,
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the Greater London Authority
simply banned back in 2016 ads
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that promoted unhealthy body
images on their public
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transport. Do you know anything
about that?
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Marilyn Bromberg: Yeah, so what
happened was the Mayor of
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London, just decided to ban
these ads on public transport.
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And he said it was because he
had two teenage daughters. And I
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think that it's a good example
of the legislation or change in
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this area happening because it's
often a politician who has some
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sort of connection to the kind
of culture that's relevant or
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know someone impacted by an
eating disorder that causes
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change to happen. It makes me
think of in Israel, how the
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first law was passed was
actually because Adi Barkan, who
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was a fashion photographer, he
had models who were friends who
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are dying from eating disorders.
And then he started a very
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lengthy, and very, very
important campaign with Rachel
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Adato, a politician in Israel to
try to get the law passed there.
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So it's a lot of kind of ad hoc
advocacy that is seeing change
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in this area happened. However,
the thing is, is it needs to
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reflect the evidence. I think,
if you're gonna if you're going
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to pass laws, and go through
that effort, like at least
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review the health evidence and
have legislation reflect that.
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Chris Patterson: Yeah, now I
think Norway the following year,
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in 2017, followed up a similar
policy, where they banned ads
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that promoted unhealthy body
images in public places. Does
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that sound right to you?
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Marilyn Bromberg: That was a
city in Norway. Yeah, Trondheim,
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Norway. And they did that. And
yeah, and that's correct. But
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they they passed their national
law in about 2021.
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Chris Patterson: Okay. Well, I
mean, it's, I guess, to a
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degree, it's good to see that
there are localized responses to
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this issue, which are leading to
more national responses. Perhaps
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there's some hope in New Zealand
and Australia that something
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could be introduced here down
under to really address what
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appears to be quite a serious
issue, yes?
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Marilyn Bromberg: Yeah, I think
I think it would be good iff, in
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New Zealand and Australia, they
carefully reviewed the health
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research out there, it is
plentiful, and then sought
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opinions from relevant
stakeholders, with a view to
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passing legislation that
reflects the health evidence.
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Chris Patterson: Yeah. Now on
the health topic, and I know I'm
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bouncing back to France, but
it's just that it's sort of the
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area, which I was able to get a
bit of information on. And
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there's also a prohibition, I
understand, in France that you
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can't hire a model, unless the
models got a verified medical
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certificate certifying that you
know, that they're actually at a
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healthy body weight. And if you
do, engage and hire a model,
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without such medical
certificate, the fines aren't
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small. It's 75,000 euros. So
I'll just say, you know,
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approximately 120,000 Australian
140,000 kiwi, New Zealand, and
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up to six months in jail. I
mean, this is quite a
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significant punishment. And I
guess that maybe reflects how
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serious the French see this as
an issue. Have you got thoughts
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on that?
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Marilyn Bromberg: Well also,
yeah. I did want to add that in
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Israel as well, models need to
have a medical certificate for
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their BMI in order to model and
then also there can be civil
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punishments in Israel for
breaching that. But in terms of
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France, like if we're talking
about 120,000, you know, the
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equivalent of 120 or 150,000
Australian dollars. I think that
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for a, you know, the large
businesses in France I would
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think that that probably isn't
much but certainly six months in
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jail, I think might have some
sort of deterrent effect. But
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also I think the thing is that
you know, I think six months in
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jail, could very well have a
deterrent effect. I think for
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the small businesses, the
financial penalty would probably
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have a deterrent effect. But
also the issue is, is this law
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being enforced? I mean, that's a
thing as well. So it's all good,
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you know, to have this sort of
punishment, potentially. But,
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you know, is it being enforced?
But the thing is that I don't, I
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don't think that it's worth it
to have these sort of
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punishments for legislation that
doesn't reflect health evidence
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and won't improve things. I
think if there's legislation
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that based on the evidence, who
would help the people of France,
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then I'm all for these kinds of
punishments. And in fact, I
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think that for the financial
potential penalty, the financial
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penalty should be should depend
on the the turnover of the
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business or the revenue of the
business. And so for small
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business, you have a smaller
penalty, and for the large
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businesses, you hit them much
harder than what you're
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currently hitting them with.
And, therefore, because I don't
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think it's necessarily
equitable, Norway wouldn't get
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the best result having just a
one size fits all kind of
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penalty.
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Chris Patterson: Yeah, look, I
mean, I'm with you with that for
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some businesses, they would just
see it as a tariff potentially,
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that they can easily absorb. I
mean, New Zealand and Australia
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do have proceeds of crimes
provisions and legislation that
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could possibly engage. But yes,
certainly there is a penalty
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there. Now, let's talk about
social media and the law and how
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this fits in to body image law,
because social media plays such
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a major part in many people's
lives, but particularly young
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people, teenagers, those in the
early 20s, and images, body
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image, plays, it plays a part in
that depending on you know, what
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accounts people follow. And you
know, what they're accessing
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over the internet. Where's the
interconnection between social
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media and body image law?
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Marilyn Bromberg: Sure, well
with social media, people are
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exposed to a huge amount of
images. And you know, when you
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sign up to social media, it's
normally because you want to
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stay in touch with friends or
read the news or find out about
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your organizations or see many
of my very cute puppy photos.
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It's not because you want to see
images of people that are
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altered to make them look like
if it into the ideal version of
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beauty, right? And so the thing
is that social media is a very
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image based medium, so many
images that are modified to make
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people look better than they do.
And there's a huge body of
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evidence, including by Marika
Tiggerman and Jasmine Fardouly,
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which has found that what
happens is what I described
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before is that people see these,
these doctored images, or these
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images that are best possible of
people, and they compare
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themselves. And if they think
that they don't measure up, then
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it can negatively impact their
body image, and it could
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potentially lead to eating
disorders.
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Chris Patterson: Yeah. Okay. So
you do see that there may be a
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role for some of these social
media platforms to play in
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trying to help solve this
problem? I mean, Meta, you know,
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we used to know it as Facebook,
but you know, it owns Facebook,
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Instagram, WhatsApp, or, you
know, various other online
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channels do we should it should
a company like that take some
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responsibility for helping and
prove, or at least mitigate
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against the dangers of bad body
image communications?
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Marilyn Bromberg: You bet they
should. It makes me think of
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there was a whistleblower [in
the] United States. I don't know
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if you heard I think it might
have been maybe a year ago or
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so, a year and a half. And I
think her name might have been
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Frances Haugen, I think, don't
quote me on that. And she leaked
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a huge amount of information
from Meta. And one of the things
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that she leaked was that
Facebook or Meta knew that
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social media negatively
contributed to the poor body
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image of its users and didn't
really want to do anything about
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it.
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Chris Patterson: It was just
complacent, happy for it to
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occur. Is that what the
conclusion was?
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Marilyn Bromberg: Oh, listen,I
don't think that they were happy
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about it. But I don't think that
they decided to take enough
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action to address it.
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Chris Patterson: So coming back
to Australia or New Zealand,
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we'll start off with Australia.
I mean, it's my understanding
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that the government's position
is that it's an industry issue
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to solve. And they're they're
just leaving it up to the
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industry. Is that still the
position?
366
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,140
Marilyn Bromberg: Yes. Yeah.
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Chris Patterson: I mean, I guess
this is part of why we have laws
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is when you leave it to people
to solve problems to resolve
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mischief, and that, and they're
doing a poor job of it, isn't it
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time for the legislature to step
in and say, look, we've given
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you an opportunity, and you're
not doing it. So what, if
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anything, has the Australian
Government done at any point in
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time to try and encourage the
industry to, I guess, up its
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game on this point?
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Marilyn Bromberg: Well, in about
2010 or so the Labour government
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and their youth minister at the
time, Kate Ellis put together a
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voluntary industry code of
conduct. So it made these
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00:26:30,340 --> 00:26:34,960
recommendations, like you should
use models who are diverse and
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are of a healthy weight and that
sort of thing. And it had some
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00:26:39,790 --> 00:26:41,890
good ideas, but they were very
vague. But importantly, it
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wasn't a law. So therefore, it
wasn't really widespread in
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terms of taking it up. So that
so that was done. But I mean, I
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think the thing is that we need
to remember that a lot of the
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people who are impacted by these
images are vulnerable. They're
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00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,060
young people, they don't
critically analyze what they
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see. And therefore they take
things at face value, and
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therefore I feel like the
government does have
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responsibility, particularly for
them, to take care of them and
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to do something because they are
so vulnerable. I mean, certainly
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I'm not saying that these images
don't impact people who are
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older, they certainly do. But by
and large, some of the worst
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impacts that we're seeing is on
young people.
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00:27:28,890 --> 00:27:32,160
Chris Patterson: Well, I mean,
it's a hallmark of any civilized
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society is the degree to which
it protects and looks after the
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00:27:37,140 --> 00:27:39,540
interests of its most
vulnerable. And I mean, you're
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00:27:39,540 --> 00:27:42,810
rightly saying, you know, we've
got these young people who the
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science is saying or
establishing are being adversely
398
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affected by poor body image, and
the various fashion industry -
399
00:27:57,930 --> 00:28:02,070
taking one industry, but you can
also say advertising and media
400
00:28:02,070 --> 00:28:07,170
as well - they are, you know,
they've got a responsibility
401
00:28:07,170 --> 00:28:11,400
here. They are the ones that are
peddling it, perpetrating it,
402
00:28:12,150 --> 00:28:16,800
promoting it. They've had an
opportunity, at least back at
403
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2009, and 10 to sort themselves
out on a voluntary basis. And if
404
00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:26,190
they're unable to do so then
isn't that just screaming out to
405
00:28:26,190 --> 00:28:27,660
you that it's time to regulate?
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Marilyn Bromberg: Definitely.
407
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Chris Patterson: Okay. Right.
And I guess regulation, is there
408
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a model that we can we can look
to? I mean, we've talked about
409
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Israel, we've talked about
France. Is there a model there,
410
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,360
that could be a good blueprint
or a starting point for some
411
00:28:48,390 --> 00:28:53,460
legislation that could help take
or at least be a positive step
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00:28:53,460 --> 00:28:55,020
towards addressing these
problems?
413
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,930
Marilyn Bromberg: No, I don't
know of any that is a good
414
00:28:57,930 --> 00:29:00,900
blueprint, because none reflect
the evidence. I think there
415
00:29:00,900 --> 00:29:06,390
needs to be politicians working
with psychologists in body
416
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image, who understand the peer
reviewed research, who put
417
00:29:10,980 --> 00:29:12,630
together something that's
evidence based. So
418
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:15,210
unfortunately, at this point in
time, notwithstanding that there
419
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are body image laws in the world
that exist, I don't think that
420
00:29:18,420 --> 00:29:22,650
any would be relevant blueprint
for New Zealand or Australia.
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00:29:23,020 --> 00:29:26,020
Chris Patterson: Okay, well, so
it's really going to be a
422
00:29:26,020 --> 00:29:29,530
starting from, it sounds to me,
a starting from scratch approach
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of various stakeholders being
involved to formulate a
424
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:43,720
regulatory regime, that's going
to provide protection but also
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just make it safer for people to
watch advertisements, to be
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00:29:49,150 --> 00:29:52,330
exposed to them, to get onto
social media, etcetera, yes?
427
00:29:53,650 --> 00:29:56,440
Marilyn Bromberg: Yeah. And I'd
also like to see the existing
428
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body image laws modified to
reflect evidence as well.
429
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Chris Patterson: Okay, and is
there anything in particular
430
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,300
that stand out for you?
431
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Marilyn Bromberg: Oh, all of
them, I think need to be
432
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modified so they reflect the
evidence.
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Chris Patterson: Okay. Well, it
seems there's quite a bit of
434
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work that really needs to be
done to move this forward. I
435
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mean, I guess, it's a question
of getting some political
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motivation, some politicians
that are prepared to accept that
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00:30:27,490 --> 00:30:31,510
this is a problem and it's one
that needs to be addressed. The
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00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:35,230
industry doesn't appear to, in
Australia, to have addressed it.
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00:30:36,430 --> 00:30:37,840
And it can't carry on.
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00:30:40,390 --> 00:30:41,230
Marilyn Bromberg: Precisely.
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00:30:41,330 --> 00:30:45,710
Chris Patterson: Yeah. All
right. Well, look, I think this
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is a great topic and space that
it really almost typifies, you
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00:30:53,690 --> 00:30:59,690
know, the law and potential
development for the future. You
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00:30:59,690 --> 00:31:02,120
and others have clearly
identified in certainly the
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00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,910
overseas experience in some
countries, you know, we've
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00:31:04,910 --> 00:31:09,890
mentioned Israel, France, or the
UK and Norway, is that there is
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00:31:09,890 --> 00:31:14,990
the science there to say that,
you know, harm is caused, and it
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00:31:14,990 --> 00:31:18,260
needs to be addressed. You can't
leave it up to the industry to
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00:31:18,500 --> 00:31:22,190
do it themselves. There has a
role to be played in the law.
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00:31:22,190 --> 00:31:26,420
And I guess, you know, we're at
a point where, here in New
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00:31:26,420 --> 00:31:30,170
Zealand and Australia, where
their opportunity exists for our
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00:31:30,170 --> 00:31:36,410
lawmakers to engage and develop
some law into the future that's
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00:31:36,410 --> 00:31:39,530
going to make New Zealand and
Australia better places to be.
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00:31:40,910 --> 00:31:41,810
Marilyn Bromberg: Here's hoping.
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00:31:43,100 --> 00:31:45,260
Chris Patterson: Marilyn, thank
you very much for joining me on
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00:31:45,260 --> 00:31:49,130
the podcast today. I mean, it's
personally been a fascinating
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00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,000
dive into an area of law that
I've just literally never come
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00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,710
across body image law. I feel
more enriched for it and better
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00:31:57,710 --> 00:32:02,870
informed. And, look, I'm going
to watch the space and I think a
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00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:07,490
few of the listeners will do
that as well, in hoping that the
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00:32:07,490 --> 00:32:10,550
status quo doesn't remain
because the status quo doesn't
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00:32:10,550 --> 00:32:12,470
sound like it's helping.
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00:32:13,310 --> 00:32:15,530
Marilyn Bromberg: It's not.
Thank you so much for having me.
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00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,070
And it's been such a pleasure
speaking with you, Chris.
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00:32:19,230 --> 00:32:21,000
Chris Patterson: Okay, hey, it's
been really good connecting with
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00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,010
you. And look, thanks for
joining me on the podcast.
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00:32:23,610 --> 00:32:25,020
Marilyn Bromberg: My pleasure.
Thank you.
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00:32:26,020 --> 00:32:27,640
Chris Patterson: Thank you for
tuning in and listening to this
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00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,120
episode of the law down under
podcast. You're welcome to join
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00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,790
in on the discussion via my
podcast page, which you can
471
00:32:33,790 --> 00:32:41,890
access at patterson.co.nz.
That's patterson.co.nz. Thanks
472
00:32:41,890 --> 00:32:44,590
for supporting the podcast and
tune in again for more on the
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00:32:44,590 --> 00:32:47,590
law, its application and the
future of the law here down
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00:32:47,590 --> 00:32:47,830
under.